Monday, April 1, 2019

No Great Women Composers? (1)

I recently came across a provocative article from 2015 in The Spectator, called "There's a good reason why there are no great women composers," by Damian Thompson, who is described in Wikipedia as an English journalist, editor and author with a Ph.D in the sociology of religion from the London School of Economics. He writes a monthly column about classical music for The Spectator.

Not familiar with The Spectator? Here is an excerpt from its description in Wikipedia, which I've abridged slightly, indicated by the ellipses (…):
"The Spectator is a weekly British magazine on politics, culture, and current affairs. It was first published in July 1828... Its editorial outlook is generally supportive of the Conservative Party, although regular contributors include some outside that fold... The magazine also contains arts pages on books, music, opera, and film and TV reviews."
If you align yourself ideologically as a liberal or progressive, you may be reluctant to pay much attention to a conservative journal, but I believe in making your own mind up about things on a case-by-case basis, and not simply based on the degree to which others are expressing views that align with your own – so let's examine what the article actually says.



For starters, the article's title is misleading; at no point does it propose "a good reason why there are no great women composers;" it does not explore that question at all. In many publications, an article's title is not written by the article's author – there are others whose job it is to write headlines – so perhaps the author is not to blame for the misleading, "click-bait style" title.

Here's what the author writes:
"Last week a 17-year-old girl forced the Edexcel exam board to change its A-level music syllabus to include the work of women composers. Jessy McCabe, a sixth former at Twyford Church of England High School in London, started a petition after studying gender inequality. Good for her, you might think. But is it good for A-level students?
"A delicate question lies at the heart of the subject of female composers, and it’s not ‘Why are they so criminally underrepresented in the classical canon?’ It’s ‘How good is their music compared with that of male composers?’"
Is this a legitimate question? It is, as the author acknowledges, a "delicate" one – simply asking the question might offend some – but is it fair game to ask questions such as this? Before answering, consider whether it is okay to ask other similar questions involving comparisons, such as the following:
  • How good is British music of the 18th and 19th centuries, compared with that of German and Austrian composers?
  • How good is French music of the 18th and 19th centuries, compared with that of German and Austrian composers?
  • How good is American music of the 18th and 19th centuries, compared with that of German and Austrian composers?
  • How good is Salieri's music, compared with Mozart's?
And so on…

We tend to assume that the canonical works of classical music history are the result of a Darwinian meritocracy – we perform and study Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc., because they represent the artistic pinnacle of human achievement within their periods in the art form that is classical music.

So, you might ask, why not ask questions such as those above?

I have no objection to any of these questions, but I wonder (a) where they get us, and (b) what the motivation is behind them?




Where do these questions get us?

Let's propose for the sake of argument that the answer to all of the above questions, is "less good." That is, Salieri's music is less good than Mozart's; American, British, and French music of the 18th and 19th centuries is less good than that of German and Austrian composers; and women composers of these periods composed music that did not rise to the level of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms, which I'll group as "A-List" composers.

So what?

Does that mean we jettison the music of "lesser" composers – Berlioz, Bizet,  Borodin, Bruckner,  Dvorak,  Elgar,  Grieg, Holst,  Liszt, Mahler, Felix Mendelssohn, Rossini,  Saint-Saëns,  Schubert, Robert Schumann, Sibelius, Smetana, etc. – from the repertoire?

Well, of course not! Each of the "lesser" composers listed above wrote wonderful music that has moved generations of classical music lovers, and the musical landscape would be considerably poorer without their contributions.

But wait, you might shout! The "lesser" composers above were still excellent composers!

I agree! They were indeed excellent composers, whose only misfortune was failing to achieve the exalted artistic heights of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms.

So, let's make a list of composers whose level of artistic achievement does not come very close to the level of the "lesser" composers above; these are composers I have heard of, and in all cases, whose music I have actually heard, and I selected them from lists of classical composers found in Wikipedia (List of Classical-era composers).

For every name listed below, there were probably about 10 other names on the Wikipedia list I did not include because I was unfamiliar with them. These might be considered "C-List" composers because they are a level or two below the composers on my previous list (Liszt, Mendelssohn, Mahler, etc.), who themselves might be considered "B-List" composers, because they were a level (or so) below the all-time greats – Bach, Mozart, & Beethoven, at least in what I suspect is the opinion of many people, but I recognize that some would not agree with this assessment.

Wilhelm Friedemann Bach (1710–1784)
William Boyce (1711–1779)
Johann Ludwig Krebs (1713–1780)
Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach (1714–1788)
Christoph Willibald Gluck (1714–1787)
Johann Wenzel Anton Stamitz (1717–1757)
Johann Philipp Kirnberger (1721–1783)
Antonio Soler (1729–1783)
Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach (1732–1795)
Jean-Jacques Beauvarlet Charpentier (1734–1794)
Johann Christian Bach (1735–1782)
Michael Arne (1740–1786)
Samuel Arnold (1740–1802)
Giovanni Paisiello (1740–1816)
Carl Stamitz (1745–1801)
Joseph Quesnel (1746–1809)
Domenico Cimarosa (1749–1801)
Johann Nikolaus Forkel (1749–1818)
Muzio Clementi (1752–1832)
Josef Reicha (1752–1795)
Vicente Martín y Soler (1754–1806)
Anton Stamitz (1754–1798 or 1809)
Luigi Cherubini (1760–1842)
Johann Ladislaus Dussek (1760–1812)
Ferdinando Carulli (1770–1841)
Anton Reicha (1770–1836)
Sophia Corri Dussek (1775–1847)
Johann Nepomuk Hummel (1778–1837)
Fernando Sor (1778–1839)
Anton Diabelli (1781–1858)
Mauro Giuliani (1781–1829)
John Field (1782–1837)
Niccolò Paganini (1782–1840)
Louis Spohr (1784–1859)
Friedrich Kuhlau (1786–1832)
Carl Maria von Weber (1786–1826)
Carl Czerny (1791–1857)
Giacomo Meyerbeer (1791–1864)
Gaetano Donizetti (1797–1848)

Incidentally, those listed above all had active compositional careers, and they all wrote works that have been recorded and performed frequently by many performing artists. In the case of the guitar composers on the list (Carullil, Sor, Giuliani), I have played their music, and professional guitarists continue to play their music regularly.

They may not have reached the lofty heights of Brahms and Beethoven, but they nevertheless accomplished much in their compositional careers.



Making lists such as those above is a bit of a silly game, perhaps – if I have Brahms on my B-list, and you have him on your A-list, it doesn't matter much, does it? – but there are potentially interesting/instructive aspects of debating these questions, such as the following:
  1. They might lead us to discover works with which we were previously unfamiliar, some of which we might enjoy hearing;
  2. They might challenge us to reconsider composers whose music we had previously dismissed or not valued highly, with the potential benefit of discovering good music that we previously did not know, or not know well, or discovering that a piece we had previously dismissed is actually a pretty good composition;
  3. They force us to examine the basis on which we evaluate music, and that seems like a beneficial exercise to consider, at least periodically. Why do I like what I do? Why do I think less of some pieces than others? Am I a musical snob? Am I truly open to new composers and new styles of music?
As composers, I believe the third aspect above is essential to improvement. If I can identify some of the attributes that make music great, then perhaps I can incorporate those aspects into my music.




I wrote a post about five years ago on Form in Post-Tonal Music (the first in a series of three on this topic) in which I mentioned the guitar Sonata in C, op. 22, by Fernando Sor, a piece I used to play. I regard it as a pleasant piece, but not up to the level of repertoire by Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven that we study in my musical form class.

Having played and heard a fair amount of his music, I think of Sor as a C-list composer, someone who made a career from composing and performing his own music, someone who knew what he was doing in terms of composition, but ultimately, someone who did not manage to reach compositional greatness.

What was interesting to me was that while I am quite clear about my views on Sor's music, it was surprisingly difficult to come up for reasons to support my opinion. Anyone can have an opinion, but articulating the reasons behind that opinion in an intelligent and considered way can be very challenging.



Returning to The Spectator article cited above, the author asks the question: How good were women composers in comparison with their male counterparts? He then provides examples of works by several women composers – Clara Schumann, Fanny Mendelssohn, Amy Beach (1867–1944), Dame Ethel Smyth (1858–1944), Elizabeth Maconchy (1907–1994), and Thea Musgrave (born 1928) – to support his conclusion that – surprise! – women composers were not as good as their male counterparts, and therefore their music does not deserve inclusion in the list of composers to be studied by British A-level students.

To me, a more pertinent question is not whether women composers were capable of writing music that matched the quality of the greatest male composers, but whether the best women composers wrote any music that compared favourably with the music of any of the composers from the lists above.

Everyone can come to their own conclusion on this question, but if you were to suggest that Clara Schumann and Fanny Mendelssohn failed to match the artistic level of Paisiello, Stamitz, Carulli, et al, I would suggest otherwise, and yet the music of Paisiello, Stamitz, and Carulli, et al, continues to be performed and recorded without any extramusical justification (e.g., "we're performing music by composers based in Milan from 1750-1800 on tonight's programme!), whereas I suspect some people feel that the only reasons Clara Schumann and Fanny Mendelssohn get performed nowadays are (a) they shared the same last name as more famous composers, and (b) they were women, and if they were men we would have forgotten about their music long ago.

And I would suggest that while (a) might have some validity, (b) does not; had they been men, I don't think anyone would question why their music continues to be recorded and performed today, any more than people question why the music of many of the "C-List" composers above gets recorded and performed.



What is the motivation behind these questions?

So, in the case of the article from The Spectator mentioned at the outset of today's post, the motivation seems pretty clear: To discredit women composers. They were not, the author argues, as good as the great male composers, so we should therefore stop all this political correctness nonsense and not include their music on the Edexcel exam board A-level music syllabus.

And yes, this is my own summary of the Spectator article, but you should read it yourself to see if am being unfair or overly harsh.

This motivation, if I have represented it fairly, is not in itself bad – if I were motivated to write an article about why the first movement of Beethoven's Waldstein sonata is considerably more sophisticated than the first movement of his first published sonata, op. 2 no. 1, I would like to think that the motivation is fine, as long as I were able to support my conclusion with clear and unbiased evidence.

Where this kind of motivation is problematic, however, is that the writer is starting with a conclusion that is largely dismissive of an entire group of composers, and then hand-picking evidence to support the conclusion. This is the level of discourse you see on phone-in sports shows on radio or television ("I think Mike Trout [major-league baseball player, considered by many to be the best of his generation] SUCKS! I watched a game the other night where he make an error and struck out TWICE! Hell, I could have done that!"), or in bar discussions by drunken folk (I still remember one such discussion from many years ago between two people I knew, about whether dogs were better than cats, or vice-versa. At first it was mildly amusing, but it became very stupid very quickly, and the opponents almost came to blows).

Ideally, we'd all find a way to look at evidence objectively and then write and/or talk intelligently about what we learned from the experience, but, as a society, we appear to be far from any kind of ideal when it comes to discourse on anything, especially on controversial matters.



As so often happens in my blog posts, I have gone on much longer than planned… I was going to look at and listen to some of the works by women composers and see if the author of The Spectator article was being fair or not, but I will save that for another post.

In the mean time, here are a couple of recordings of music by Clara Schumann, with scrolling scores:




17 comments:

Kurtis R. said...

Great post Dr. Ross. There's definitely a lot of questions surrounding this topic. I think comparing questions relating to British vs German 19th C. composers to male vs female composers is certainly an interesting, yet honest way of viewing this. You probably won't deeply offend anyone whilst arguing for or against German 19th C. composer superiority, but when comparing male and female composers, it's much more personal for most people. With regards to female composers, I think quite frankly that there just weren't as many, not necessarily for a lack of interest but because of a vastly different socio-cultural dynamic with regards to men and women. Women typically weren't allowed to play the cello for example because of the posture required, and I think, depending on upbringing and familial expectations that this could've been true for composition as well. Of course, as with most things, there's many other factors. However, with the female composers that we have (women such as Clara Schumann and Ruth Crawford come to mind), I believe that they're work is substantial and impressive enough to be evaluated on merit alone. This is in reference to your rankings of composers. It's probably true that we lift them up because of they're last name connections and the fact that they're women, but at least in the case of the women discussed in your blog post, I don't think the praise is unwarranted, regardless of underlying motivations. Perhaps we could place both Schumann and Crawford, and Mendelssohn as well on the B or the C list, because of the musical impact they had compared to Mozart and Bach. However, music being often subjective, I personally prefer Clara Schumann over J.S. Bach. Maybe it has more to do with my preference of Romanticism over Baroque, but not entirely. Nonetheless, it certainly is a fascinating subject.

Pallas said...

We were talking about this bogus article in my gender and music class a few weeks ago. I think we ended up taking the same conclusion. The title was a loaded question, and using a few musical examples to pass judgement on a whole diverse demographic of composers didn't prove anything. I think the analogy about making a list of B-list composers would be a fascinating activity to have a bunch of people do. I was personally very surprised to see WF, JC, and CPE Bach on Dr. Ross' B-list. As a fan of the music produced by the Bach Family, I think that JS's sons definitely wrote some pieces that deserve the merit that we give to certain canon composers. But it is really a matter of opinion, and I think my list of B-list composers would shock people as well.
I think that the question of the female composers' place in the Western music canon is an important one. I hope that we can all agree on how we need to increase the visibility of past female composers. Excluding them from historical discussions about period music leads people to believe that they either didn't exist, or that we don't talk about them because they were actually not all that good at the music business. But, taking Fanny Hensel and Felix Mendelssohn for example, it is kind of hard to compare them in terms of who was better. As children, when they were receiving a similar music education, Fanny was actually the one who showed more talent and promise. But as adults, Felix had the support of his family to pursue a career as a composer, while Fanny had to give up music to marry and start a family. She did keep composing, but she would do so as a hobby to show off in parlor settings, but never a concert hall. If the Mendelssohn family had supported Fanny and Felix equally, would that have changed how we perceive the siblings? Fanny would have gotten more training in composing and orchestrating, so who is to say that she wouldn't have been better? I think it's hard to compare them both because they both experienced different struggles and societal expectations.
Nowadays, these kinds of struggles and societal expectations between the genders are not as drastic, but we still have an implicit bias against female composers. Living or dead, we don't program them as much as we should, and we are quick to compare them to male composers of a similar period. Baltimore Symphony Orchestra has a great graphic about performance date from the 2015-2016 season across 89 American orchestras (https://www.bsomusic.org/stories/what-data-tells-us-about-the-2015-16-orchestra-season.aspx) and the data is crazy. I think it goes back to a point made in the blog post: do we really overprogram certain people because we think they're the best? Why do we seem to REALLY like some composers over others? Why are we as a collective classical music community not as open to hearing music by different people, specifically people who are not white, male and dead? It isn't a meritocracy; concert programs don't program certain composers because they are "the best". So we shouldn't act like a lack of female composers in the canon is because they somehow are undeserving.
Sorry for the rant-like comment. I didn't want to go into the Spectator article because it makes me mad that someone would tear down a bunch of great composers because he took issue with a student wanting some diversity in their music syllabus. Like this isn't 1952. Wanting to include some female composers in a high school curriculum should be a non-issue. But I'm glad that this blog post was able to break down the premise of the article in a really rational way. I'm looking forward to reading the future blog posts about women composers!

Bert said...

I think it was was a great idea to turn this piece of clickbait from one of the UK's more culturally regressive tabloids (of which there are many) into a more considered approach to the question of compositional legitimacy and canon. I think the way the classical music community has spent centuries mythologizing every aspect of the life of canon composers makes bringing women and other marginalized identities into the fold of 'great composers' very difficult. Up until very recently, the concept of 'genius' was generally reserved for men, and as such, looking to women composers to find great music may have seemed like a fool's errand for much of music history. Even today, when trying to find/program great compositions by women that have been buried by history, there still seems to be a subset of the music consuming audience that still feels that way (as evidenced by those who defend the Spectator article online, which I would not recommend seeking out).
I think one's opinion on this topic may relate to one's own opinion on the hierarchies that exist in society today: do the people we venerate as 'geniuses' only stay in that position due to darwinian meritocracy, or is maintaining the inaccessibility of greatness for new/marginalized composers just reinforcing the perceived greatness of the canon? Are those who reinforce the idea that the current hierarchy need not be changed benefiting from the status quo? Is profit for concert halls or the will of the donor class a motivating factor in keeping programming stagnant?
This is a somewhat bleak outlook, so I will share some of my favourite music by new women composers below:
Bekah Simms, Granitic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr-CMNdVRDQ
Shelly Washington, BIG Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7WqLWWLe50
Nicole Lizee, Book Burners: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWjlTP185aA
(not new) Pauline Oliveros, Sound Geometries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNxGLAf-Bys

Duncan Stenhouse said...

I honestly think at the end of the day that the term "good music" is entirely up to the listener. Top 100 lists or tier rankings of anything (especially in the arts) is in the end always going to be highly subjective unless based upon facts such as a "top 10 best selling songs of the decade" list or something along those lines. In this case I don't think that lists like this make much sense but we do naturally rank things personally and so we are also naturally curious to see and discuss where other people rank similar things. I think this scenario falls into this category. At the end of the day its all just opinion and there will never be a time we all agree on things such as this. In my opinion I think that women composers are extremely important and that there are truly incredible works by women. I also think that unfortunately because of the repression of women throughout society we simply do not have as many surviving works by women so we are cornered into a very select group of works that of course is not always going to be everyones cup of tea. The broader the pallet of work the more likely people are to like some of it, but when there is so little compared to the complete catalogue of music that has survived that was created by men a lot of people who already have gendered biases can easily say "oh their work is not as good cause I don't personally like what I've heard of it." Which is honestly just ridiculous.
To help explain why I think this is ridiculous I would like to talk about some of my own opinions on music. Quite honestly I really am not a huge fan of a few musical genre's in contemporary music today , however just because I personally do not love the sound I am still the type of person that thinks those pieces are incredible just because I know how much work went into them. Just because someone is talented at writing in a style you don't enjoy as much does not mean they are not talented. This in my opinion is where a lot of these opinion pieces and tabloid critiques go wrong. They allow their personal bias on the music dictate if its good music or not, which is really just silly.

Cassie Woolfrey said...

As someone who aligns politically with more liberal and progressive ideals but is Christian, I tend to hear a lot of what I consider to be problematic arguments against women just because of how certain people interpret scripture. I interact with these people regularly through church events and whatnot so it would not be possible (nor healthy) to discredit every single thing these people say, despite the fact that I do disagree with many of their opinions. I wouldn’t interact with anybody if I did that. Also, love thy neighbour and all that.
However, it does not seem as though the opinions against women shown by this author are based on a religious bias - at least not with how it’s presented. This guy is just not interested in listening to music by women.
Dr. Ross, you mentioned briefly that different composers can be ranked differently by different people and I totally agree. The author of this fails to acknowledge that “good” is subjective. There are a lot of people who don’t like listening to Beethoven because that’s not their thing. They could say that Beethoven isn’t good. That subjective evaluation is not valuable. If something can be learned from a piece, it is important that it be studied.
In conclusion, I tried to read the author’s opinions in a way that wasn’t clouded by personal political beliefs, but it’s hard to read his points as anything but misogynistic.

Frank O'B said...

"WoMeN ArEn'T rEcOgNizEd As MuCh aS mEn BeCaUsE tHeY'rE nOt GoOd EnOuGh". I've seen this same phrase said in many variations, by authors of, most likely, the same political affiliation as this one. These kinds of authors seem to love playing the blame game. Blaming anyone but themselves for society's gender problems. And yes, these problems do exist, especially in Western classical music history. I mean, take a look at Clara Schumann! One of my buddies in my studio played a Nocturne by her, I thought it was Chopin's! She stopped composing after her husband died an early death, but still kept performing, to pay the bills. Of course, this is not a concrete reason as to why her works aren't recognized to the length of Chopin's, but it certainly offers a unique perspective into the sexism of the 19th century. I also 100000% agree that "good" is subjective. Lists of A, B, and C list composers really do nothing at the end of the day. I have some "C-list" composers that are on my "A-list", and some "A-list" composers that are on my "C-list". I have my reasons. And so do you. And that's perfectly okay. However, this article is incredibly generalistic and doesn't over any specifics to the notion that "women composers just aren't good enough". They're certainly a lot better than the author, that's for sure!

Eda said...

I find discussions on what is considered “great” music incredibly interesting. Not because of the subject itself, but because the answers can be quite indicative of the participants and musical society as a whole.

Before moving onto the discussion of “great” female composers, we have to think of why we consider composers such as Beethoven and Mozart as “great." I think the answer is circumstance. They were obviously great musicians, but they were born into the right families, were marketed in a certain way, and trained from birth. Beethoven revolutionized the symphony, but what if audiences happened to not respond well to what he was creating? What if he was born a woman? I’m sure there were other composers that had just as much potential as the “great” composers, but they were never at the right place at the right time.
Since Beethoven and Mozart had such a large impact during their active years, composers that followed would obviously sing their praises and hold them to high regard. During my research for my paper that I did for music history this semester, I had read about groups of people that identified themselves as admirers of certain composers and would dedicate large portions of their time to writing and examining their music. I think this type of thing is something that helped boost their prestige. As modern musicians, we are all unwillingly biased by these perceptions put forth by our predecessors. I’ve always been fond of Beethoven even before I knew about what he did to shape the modern classical world today. I’ve been told since I was young that his symphonies and piano sonatas were the best of the best. Although I now know why these statements are said, how biased are those reasonings? I’m sure that my mentors and more experienced musicians are also biased in their own ways as well. I still love Beethoven, but I think it would benefit everybody to look past their biases and explore other composers. Especially if they are part of a group that has not had the grace of a built-in bias.

Now onto the subject of “great” female composers. I think it goes without saying that there are none because women were not allowed to be “great.” Female composers were not nurtured like their male counterparts, their works not allowed to be revolutionary, and were repressed by history. The article is just a modern example of this. The author is extremely harsh towards the women composers he talks about. Take how he speaks of Clara Schumann. He slams her piano concerto, comparing it to that of her husband’s. Clara wrote her concerto at the age of 13, and the author fails to mention that he was comparing it to the work of a 35 year old Robert. He mentions in passing that it was an early work, but that statement is vague enough to still diminish Clara’s skill. He also mentions Clara’s critical statements towards well-regarded works in a thinly veiled attempt to negatively paint the reader’s perception of Clara, and conveniently leaves out that Robert shared similar views.

I think this type of negative pushback is a result of the bias against female composers that are still at play. Women composers are still not the norm in the Western art world and anything to do with them is still seen as out of the ordinary. As you mentioned in your blog, I think that it would be more helpful to ask how the work of female composers compares to the work of male composers as a whole rather than the “greats.” To expand on this, I think the concept of the “greats” is something that is slightly outdated. As I said before, I think it would be beneficial for musicians to seek out the work of other composers that aren’t Beethoven or Mozart. Even if the music isn’t “great,” there are probably still works that are less listened to but are worth listening to.

Madison Braye said...

What I find most interesting about the question of ‘great’ woman composers is that there is a level that would be considered ‘great’ at all. I think that this is where the list that you created of “C-list composers” is interesting, particularly where you acknowledge that they also wrote excellent music but did not achieve the “exalted artistic heights.” Personally, I think that being seen as a ‘great’ composer feels like it comes down to a popularity contest where the winners are elevated on a pedestal. Sure, Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven wrote massive amounts of stellar music, but they were also capable of writing things that probably weren’t so good. Additionally, what we consider great does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the music at the time that it was written.
But, if we were to consider Beethoven, Mozart, etc. to be the base line for what it a great composer and arguing their inclusion in A-list syllabi, then it seems as if we are evaluating their pieces in the context of complexity and technical ability. As the A-list composers are all known for writing technically complex pieces, then it would naturally make sense for their compositions to be included in an A-level syllabus, as it clearly provides the student with something difficult to practice and learn. However, should technical complexity be the only things that are valued within the syllabus? Often, even if the women composer’s music is not as technically brilliant as the men’s, pieces that focus less on the technical aspect still often have something to learn and practice in terms of expression, or balance. While I have no doubt that the ‘great’ composers also feature these things in their music, it is much easier to get by without showing expressiveness to its fullest when you can impress audiences by accurately using flashy or complicated technique. I also think that playing for the audience is where the subject that you mention of possibly being a ‘music snob’ comes into effect. Unless they are a musician themselves, it unlikely that the audience will truly notice all of the brilliance of the small technical aspects of more complicated pieces, and just see the bigger image of entertainment. From an audience’s perspective it is just as valuable to have expressive entertainment that they connect with, rather than just complexity and the nuances of brilliant theory. Therefore, it makes more sense to have an A-list musician be able to play a combination of the standard ‘great’ composers A-list music, as well as that of less proficient composers as it shows range and versatility. Even if women composers are not considered ‘great’ to the standards of Beethoven and Mozart, it does not mean that they should be restricted from A-list students, as that will likely be to their detriment.
In contrast, having read the article, I find myself extremely confused on the points that the author is trying to make. He seems to be evaluating the ‘greatness’ of a piece of a composer based on hie own emotional response to the piece. Throughout, the descriptions of the pieces he provides are “banal”, “awful”, and he equated “well-crafted” to “boring” even through the context in which they would share a double meaning is highly specific and unlikely to be applied to an entire catalogue of a composers works. There are also no technical examples provided in this article to back up the claims of the pieces not being ‘great’. Surprisingly, I actually do agree with one point in the article, that being that many women composers that are remembered had an advantage, however, this goes for all composers even into the present day. Whether it be a well-known name, or pre-existing wealth, people who already have an advantage are more likely to make it further with less resistance. As a whole, I just couldn’t take the article seriously since it reeked so heavily of subjective personal opinion and bias, making it read less like a justification of the inadequacy of women composer’s music, and more like the tantrum of a man who can’t accept that not everyone hates women.

Unknown said...

I think it’s interesting how many people are so concerned with why we’re focusing on women and other marginalized composers, and spending so much energy trying to prove why we shouldn’t be doing it instead of just appreciating the beautiful new music. Something I will never understand is why people aren’t ecstatic to find new music just because it wasn’t written by an old german guy.

I think it’s valuable to consider these questions, but I’ve generally come to the conclusion of why does it matter whose music is “better” than others? At the end of the day I believe that everyone at that level has the ability to tell their story in a way that can be appreciated and should be celebrated. People need to stop hiding behind academia as a way to hate women.

Clark Ross said...

Just wanted to jump in to respond to the comment above by "Unknown."

Regarding the first sentence, while there are people who object to the programming of music by women and other marginalized composers, I think that for many, the objection is based on a perception that the basis for including such composers in concert programmes and recordings is at least in part because they are marginalized, and not because the music itself merits inclusion.

Whether the music itself justifies inclusion is of course debatable.

There have been many times when I have been unimpressed or unmoved by pieces I've heard at concerts, even if they were written by so-called "big name" composers. I would much rather hear music by composers I've never heard of than listen to music that I don't particularly enjoy, irrespective of who wrote it.

One common basis for programming decision is "cronyism," which means using a relationship with someone, such as a friend or colleague, as the basis for programming their music.

This strikes me as a pretty sketchy basis for music programming decisions, but some of the compositions I have heard that were programmed based on cronyism struck me as being surprisingly good, while others, not so much. Does this mean that cronyism is not necessarily a poor basis on which to make programming decisions?

My main point is that there are lots of music programming decisions that are based on factors other than "merit" (which is hard to define, but worthy of discussion), so why not include factors such as belonging to a marginalized group for some of these decisions?
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My second thought is that I don't understand the final sentence of the above comment: "People need to stop hiding behind academia as a way to hate women."

I don't know what this means… Presumably it was a reaction to something in my blog post, but I don't think that I mentioned people "hiding behind academia as a way to hate women."

One of the most interesting aspects of this story, for me at least, was that a 17-year-old girl "forced the Edexcel exam board to change its A-level music syllabus to include the work of women composers."

You can certainly argue that such a change was long overdue, but, as is often the cases with prejudices and biases, people are often unaware that they have them until it is pointed out to them, which I would guess is what happened with the Edescel exam board.

Jessica Ozon said...

Like most of the other comments here, I agree that the need some have to deem certain works or composers as "great" is at the root of the issue as to whether we should program/perform/learn about the works of (historic) female composers. I like Eda's comment that "there are no great female composers because women were not allowed to be “great.” Women simply have not had the same opportunities historically to achieve the same things as their male counterparts. That being said, I think there are much better reasons to engage with music rather than it being great. Particularly as musicians, I think it important to engage with as much different music as we can. If we are to understand music as an art or something that has creative/spiritual/subjective elements, we must be able to find value in works outside of those which are deemed to be the best. Even if Clara Schumann's music did have the occasional technical error as the author argues, surely there is a voice in her music unique to her (even unique from that of her husband!) that may help us to expand our understanding and appreciation of music. I think this is where the questions that follow your "C-list" of composers comes in: How do we really know what "great" music is, and how can we expand on our understanding and appreciation of music by diversifying the art we engage with?

Emma Hamilton said...

Music is one of those things that most people tend to feel they are entitled to have opinions about. Similar to how people sometimes feel like “armchair political scientists” when watching the federal election, it's very common for someone with no musical background to think that they are an “expert” at music. I think the most painful part about this article isn’t the author’s opinion, nor the faulty logic he employs to defend it, but the fact that he has no credentials in music whatsoever. If I were to tell you that global warming isn’t real, you probably wouldn’t take me seriously as I am in no way qualified as an environmental scientist. So why is it that we take the claims in this article seriously if we are aware that this person has 0 qualifications as a musician (or as a woman, for that matter)?
Besides what is mentioned in the blog post, I think that another large flaw this article contains is that it does not consider contemporary classical composers in the slightest. The women examples in this article were all born between 1805 and 1928. Is the author suggesting that there are also no good living female composers? As a female composer, it is already difficult to envision someone like me making a living as a composer. Despite a shift in recent years, composition and music theory are still fields that are heavily male dominated. I have never had a female composition or theory teacher, nor can I imagine one easily in my head. The times are changing, but they haven’t changed yet. I often wonder if things would be different if I were a male working in the same field, which is a question I guess we’ll never know the answer to. The last thing women composers need right now is discouragement from entering a musical career, which is just one more reason why I think that this article never should have been published.

Kaitlin White said...

The thought of women composers being “less than” their male counterparts is absolutely ridiculous. As a woman hoping to become a good composer, people who say anything along the lines of “women are not as good as men in music” is beyond aggravating. Unfortunately, there are not as many female composers who are as well known as they should be, BUT I think that can easily change for the most part. Women nowadays have easier access to music education than what they did in the 19th century which is fantastic, but we need to be playing each other's music and even the music of women who have since died which will continue to show that women have been present in the composition side of the music industry for centuries.

Music always has been, and likely always will be something that people will have opinions about regardless of whether or not they can prove them. Some pieces of music are better than others and what classifies as good music will change from person to person which is totally fine. That being said, disregarding an entire group of composers and all of their work based solely on their gender and then publishing it is devastating to women and girls who want a career in music, but I think that should feed some sort of fire in them to keep going for what they want. Finally, the people who decide not to listen to music by female composers are missing out on a ton of great music!

Andrew Dunphy said...

I agree with may of the previous comments here that the only reason there aren't more "great" women composers is that for much of the time we've written down or recorded music, women have been marginalized, and greatly prohibited from perusing music in the same way that men have. I feel that if history was altered and the classical or romantic eras happened today, there would easily be female composers that would reach the heights of Mozart and Beethoven.

This being said, there still a long ways to go even today. This gender discrepancy can be found throughout most genres of music, with the de facto list of top or "A-list" artists or composers in most genres being overwhelmingly male. I feel this all comes down to the same issue as with classical music. Even in newer genres like rock and jazz, the "greats" existed in times where women had far less agency, as recently as the mid to late 20th century. It's really only today that we're seeing a closer (though still not equal) amount of women peruse music in these styles professionally when compared to men. Because of this, I suspect the new "greats" or "A-listers" of the artistic era we are currently in will be a much more diverse cast of characters.

Ciara Cheeks said...

This post is thought-provoking, and I believe it's crucial to discuss these topics, even if consensus isn't reached. An interesting point is raised: if the current A-level music composers represent a highly comprehensive list of exceptionally accomplished performers, does it make sense to include female composers? Initially, the exclusion of many well-known and accomplished performers made me consider the merit of this point. Additionally, I pondered whether the question should be framed as "Were they as good?" or "Is their contribution in their respective times substantial?" Considering the historical disparity between men and women, breaking the mold and emerging as a female composer would indicate a certain level of success.

Unfortunately, the original author only somewhat touches on this point, stating, "And if there are no great women composers, that’s because creative geniuses are rare, and, in the past, so few women wrote music." Beyond that, the author diminishes the conversation into essentially saying, "Look at these women composers and their achievements, but they're not that great," further discrediting their musical works. At one point, he even dismisses Clara Schumann's concerto as a "dud"; however, the composition's premiere performance was conducted by Mendelssohn himself. One would expect that if acclaimed by a musical great, it deserves a more positive description than "dud."

It's worth noting that Maria Anna Mozart, though an excellent musician, never reached her brother's acclaim due to societal expectations. Forced into marriage and abandoning performing, she couldn't expand her repertoire or create a "revolutionary" work as Mozart did with "The Magic Flute" and others.

If the argument is that no female composer has matched Beethoven and Handel, I wouldn't necessarily disagree, given the numerous composers who haven't. However, the original article's focus is on the question, "Should today's musicians HAVE to know about women composers?" and I believe the answer is yes. Regardless of their perceived quality, knowing the history of music, understanding the discouragement of women in music, and recognizing talented women who defied societal norms are reasons why students should learn about them. This knowledge is crucial for an inclusive understanding of Classical music history.

It's unfortunate that the original article uses aggressive language, stating a young girl "forced" Edexcel to change their courses to include female musicians when all she did was create a Change.org petition. In conclusion, representation is crucial. When marginalized groups participate in classical music, it signifies that classical music is for everyone. Including women in the curriculum allows today's musicians to feel seen and included in the world of music.

Isaac Piercey said...

This is a very interesting post. I agree with a lot of the comments that have been posted by current and previous students, as I find that this post is very problematic in the way that it discusses this topic. I don't want to repeat the points that have been mentioned already by other students, so I would like to bring up one point that I don't think has been raised yet. The author justifies the idea that there are no brilliant composers that are women with the idea that in the passed "so few women wrote music". I would encourage the author of the article to evaluate this idea in a more detail. He does not consider that the societal barriers that have existed have had a significant role in preventing women from achieving a similar status to the famous male composers.

In relation to the initial idea of the article, I think that it is important to encourage diversity and inclusion in musical spaces. A musician ought to know about diverse composers as well as actively encourage the inclusion of women and other under-represent peoples in music/composition.

Abby Briffett said...

I have made several observations after reading the excerpts from the article in this post.

For starters, the article's title is "A Good Reason Why There Are No Great Women Composers", yet, as you stated, the "why" is not factually explored. Instead, the author simply lists a handful of women composers who were "not as good as their male counterparts", which is an opinion rather than a factual reason. All of this to say, if the article's author couldn't come up with a factual "good reason", as the title suggests without inserting an opinion, there probably isn't one.

Speaking of the author's opinionated examples, I do agree that the author's using hand-picked evidence to dismiss an entire group of people is very problematic. What is also problematic is the author passing these opinions off as factual evidence. Once again, we are looking for factual reasons, not opinions.

Finally, to address the story of the seventeen-year-old girl and the Edexcel exam board, the way the author worded his statement on the matter was rather unnecessary. Rather than saying "Last week, Jessy McCabe convinced the Edexcel exam board to change...", the author writes "Last week a 17-year-old girl forced the Edexcel exam board to change...". I feel like saying she "forced" the exam board to change its syllabus instead of saying she "convinced" them makes it sound like this change is a bad thing. Making it a point to mention that she was a teenager (i.e.: not an adult) also comes off as a tactic by the author to make readers believe that she shouldn't have been taken as seriously by the board when she had every reason to be.