tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post1335943467880809409..comments2024-03-28T20:50:26.527-02:30Comments on → Music Composition Weblog ←: PolystylismClark Rosshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13153382609775397798noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-5427360491790184362023-04-10T20:17:30.902-02:302023-04-10T20:17:30.902-02:30Regarding the discrepancy between definitions of p...Regarding the discrepancy between definitions of polystylism, I feel that there are other interesting observations to be made. For starters, when to styles co-exist within a piece, are we refusing to a seamless fusion a blending of styles throughout the duration of the piece, or a more sectional approach with clear stylistic chunks. I can personally think of examples of both which I enjoy, so I feel both answers can be alluded to in the definition. At any rate, I feel that within this definition, polystylistic music can be extremely broad (as stated by Dr. Ross). It's almost harder to think of a style of music that doesn't incorporate aspects of different earlier styles in it's make up. By this definition almost all music is in some way polystylistic. Just for example, the fusion of classical and jazz was discussed. Both these genres are already very broad, and largely already polystylistic. Classical, (as discussed), can by viewed as a mixture of various European national and religious styles, and jazz is a melting pot of various African American styles. All of this is to say that, (in my opinion), experimenting and combining previously unrelated types of music is a great way to grow music and create new genres that later themselves can be pulled apart and combined. Andrew Dunphynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-73033443993413995702022-01-24T18:36:10.803-03:302022-01-24T18:36:10.803-03:30I think polystylism can be a very effective tool f...I think polystylism can be a very effective tool for modern composers. Not only do we now know about more genres of music than in the past but the average person is actually familiar with these varying kinds of music too. It's only natural that as we develop a broader, more "global" sense of what music exists that we would begin to stray away from sticking to one genre in particular. I think people today feel less bound to identities, particularly national identities, which also blurs the lines of expressions of these things through music. Although Bach did mix German and Italian music, he probably understood them still to be sperate styles which he was combining. If you asked someone today to define the traits of contemporary Italian or German music, they may have a difficult time doing so as we don't really view these as being as separated anymore. If anything, we may have a broad sense of there being "European" music in contrast to "American" music but these are still quite vague.<br /><br />Polystylism, in a contemporary sense, seems to me to simply explain the natural result of the world getting smaller. Our current composers may set out to deliberately combine particular styles in new ways, however, the end result of this is a new style altogether. Perhaps in coming years, new genres will be born through the new combinations of music that are now possible.Jessica Ozonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08775444070974918550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-46010718300693574762021-04-11T19:35:46.008-02:302021-04-11T19:35:46.008-02:30I definitely think that as time goes on, more and ...I definitely think that as time goes on, more and more composers will have some polystylism in their works. Composers these days are being exposed to all different types of music using the internet and other means of communication. <br /><br />In fact, I find that the line between genres and styles is already quite blurred and will continue to blur. Musically, what is the difference between a modern country song and a modern pop song? You could say that the subject matter of the lyrics and possibly the instrumentation are different, but the harmonies, song structure, and use of catchy melody are largely similar. So is a modern pop song that uses acoustic guitar an example of polystylism? Or is it simply a pop song that uses acoustic guitar?<br /><br />Most of the music I listen to, especially if it was created in the last couple of years, is a fusion of some sort. If it exhibits characteristics of a specific style (a recently written piece of music) it is more often than not trying to invoke a certain past musical era rather than trying to make it sound more modern. <br /><br />Personally when I‘m writing a piece of music, I’m not thinking about how I want the style to emulate. Rather, I am thinking of elements of what music I enjoyed and whether they would work for what I am trying to create. This doesn’t always work but composing for me is already a lot of trial and error, so if something works then it works! I do see the benefit of thinking about polystylism while composing as well. Thinking about what is stylistically different about two genres of music and mashing them together can result in some very interesting outcomes.Edanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-67630491747148437652020-03-02T13:38:11.218-03:302020-03-02T13:38:11.218-03:30I am absolutely loving exploring the selections in...I am absolutely loving exploring the selections in this post/comment section. I agree with Bert that younger generation will feel more comfortable with "polystylistic writing" I think myself of the widespread use of sampling in many different styles of music today and, as Bert said, the ease with which I can transition from listening to Prokofiev to Gershwin to Green Day. <br /><br />One thing I think poly-stylism is great for is playing with expectations in music. By playing with a style that is established or even taking a direct quote from a well know piece we are setting up certain expectations in our audience. By breaking those expectations by taking them to somewhere we didn't expect we can elicit an interesting reaction in our audience. This is heavily present in Louis Andriessen - The nine symphonies of Beethoven for orchestra and ice cream bell (so much so we can hear the audience laughter when Fur elise come in during Beethoven 3, I think) or when the 9th is played by brass with oompah backtrack. Also present in Sofia Gubaidulina - Concerto For Two Orchestras where she expertly sets up expectations of one genre before shifting suddenly to another. I think the familiarity of it is what makes it comedic. We often laugh at a joke cause we recognize something familiar in it. I think this recognition is what gives the music that quotes directly its pizazz. <br /><br />That being said I do agree that it would be easy for such Ideas to become a bit of a mess. And artistic mess can be hard to pull off. The Berio Sinfonia does it expertly but we are not all Berio. Holly Winternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-43821726056260346412020-02-22T20:35:16.847-03:302020-02-22T20:35:16.847-03:30I think the previously mentioned concept of "...I think the previously mentioned concept of "Internal consistency” is an important one to keep in mind when trying to write any piece but becomes especially important within a polystylistic composition. As someone who is currently in the process of writing a polystylistic piece, I’ve found that attempting to combine different genres and/or quoted material can be both difficult and exciting. Like others have mentioned, when it works, the combination of styles can create a very satisfying and unique piece. On the other hand, attempting to incorporate multiple styles can sometimes result in a disorienting passage or piece that may seem nonsensical (while this is not necessarily a bad thing, it can be if that isn’t the composers intention). One of the ways I’ve been satisfied with music I’ve created through polystylism is to experiment with quoted material from pieces I enjoy. With a lot of inspiration for my current composition coming from the solo repertoire of close friends, I’ve found I am able to generate engaging material by combining fragments from contrasting pieces with my own ideas. Through trial and error, I’m able to find what works for me and what doesn’t. The outcome isn’t always what I expected, and sometimes something I thought would be cool is a bit of a flop, but I think that’s part of the journey when playing with polystylism.Josh Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-83576335019582912019-04-10T07:49:55.421-02:302019-04-10T07:49:55.421-02:30I think that successive generations of young compo...I think that successive generations of young composers will find it easier to relate to polystylism. Not only are we exposed to a wider variety of music than ever before, the structure of modern streaming services means that algorithmically generated suggestions can easily lead a curious listener into deep rabbit holes of influence, and the wider the range of interest, the more disparate and unconventional the recommendations become. I find myself reaching for a wide-ranging blend of influences in the early stages of planning for a piece (usually once I've decided on instrumentation), and this can sometimes wind up (as Robert alluded to) with me uncomfortably juggling balls of radically different weights and shapes, and something heavy usually landing on my head. However, I agree with Robert that, when gracefully handled, polystylistic writing can be fertile ground for creative exploration and expression in an age where a composer's influences are as wide-ranging as they are individualized. Bertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-28422247181046063692017-03-19T23:09:07.879-02:302017-03-19T23:09:07.879-02:30My experience with polystylism is that it either w...My experience with polystylism is that it either works incredibly or falls short. I think it is very easy to write a bad polystylistic piece just because it's a juggling of different moods and you need to be graceful about it.<br /><br />That being said, here are two pieces that are not graceful about the juggling of styles at all!! (but they're still very clever in a humorous way)<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VqSvBtp77Q Gubaidulina piece that sounds like avant-garde AND a 70's porno!!!!<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nBRJTnFOHA Andriessen messing with all of Beethoven's symphonies!!!!<br /><br />Most music juxtaposes contrasting elements (ie. harmony, melody, tempo, etc. etc.) so polystylism is kind of a new take on this. The genre is the contrasting element. All in all, some very awesome music!<br /><br />Here are some pieces I really like that (I think) are polystylistic.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaaRk0c-780 Schnittke - Concerto Grosso no. 1 - A classic, exhilarating example! Baroque music on drugs!<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbArUJBRRJ0 Ives - Unanswered Question - Here, Ives contrasts "pretty tonality" with "ugly post-tonality." It asks the question of where music should be heading... A cult classic. 2 enthusiastic thumbs-up.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbyrPhOzC24 Reich - Tehillim - Reich combines the slowly shifting minimalism he is known for with old Hebrew music... the result is absolutely kaleidoscopic.<br /><br /> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwJHu2gSj1A Berio - Sinfonia - One of the purest examples of polystylism, essentially a sound collage! A must-listen.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaATmagbYsw Possibly a strange choice to consider but Andriessen's language is in my opinion quite polystylistic with everything he wrote. De Staat, his most important work, is like a perfect splice of Steve Reich's minimalism and phasing techniques + Stravinsky's ugly and direct middle period, complete with a wind instrument plastered ensemble. Tell me you can't hear Symphony of Psalms in here!<br />Robert Humbernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-19074840943254215012017-03-14T19:37:17.280-02:302017-03-14T19:37:17.280-02:30I very much enjoy the use of polystylism in music....I very much enjoy the use of polystylism in music. I find it interesting when I am listening to a piece of a certain genre and suddenly new styles emerge. I conduct a Youth Band at my church (Salvation Army), and much of the new music made available to me, are arrangements of old tunes and hymns. The most appealing arrangements are those which take the old tunes and set them in a completely different style, jazz, mambo, blues, etc. Even better are those that present in a different style and then play with others throughout the pieces, marches, pop, big band, and so on. All that being said, much of the new music I encounter uses the idea of polystylism, and, to my ear, these are the most entertaining, and captivating pieces. I plan to do a few arrangements of some old religious tunes in the future so that I can try my hand at polystylism and the idea of weaving together different genres while maintaining a sense of unity throughout.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-6607220398406841482016-01-27T13:35:14.987-03:302016-01-27T13:35:14.987-03:30I'm currently writing a dissertation on polyst...I'm currently writing a dissertation on polystylism and, as you said, the wiki article is not useful...and it also isn't particularly accurate. Polystylism does, in fact, refer to multiple styles written in the same piece. They do not necessarily need to have similar rhythms, harmonies, etc etc. It is a fascinating area of music theory and one that cannot be defined in a small comment like this one, but if you want to read more, I would recommend Alfred Schnittke's essay "Polystylistic Tendencies in Modern Music."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-12594308653917663692015-03-22T18:04:56.077-02:302015-03-22T18:04:56.077-02:30I really like this concept, especially in with the...I really like this concept, especially in with the idea of using multiple styles in the writing of one piece. As a trombonist, I had the pleasure of being able to play in almost all kinds of music. Trombone is used in marching band, orchestra, chamber ensembles, jazz bands, ska bands, wind symphonies, etc… The list goes on, but not every instrument gets to do that, which is one of the reasons that I love playing the trombone. But it also helps me conceptualize new ways of writing, or new ideas for incorporating things from one medium to another. Often times when I write for certain groups, I'll throw some jazz harmony in there because I think it could be used great with the instrumentation not typically in big band. Sometimes when I write for percussion I will typically make it a lot like rock because that's what I used to listen to. <br /><br />I think that switching things up and adding different styles together and mixing them adds for a lot of fun in writing, and gives the musicians playing your music and opportunity to do something different. Josh Penneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-91605460936003716552012-12-09T15:14:44.886-03:302012-12-09T15:14:44.886-03:30It occurs that someone in the class wrote a "...It occurs that someone in the class wrote a "polystylistic" piece this semester. Even though the styles were chugging along, it didn't ever seem like there was a lack of "internal consistency." The melodic material was consistent. And another consistency was the fact that the styles were inconsistent. I'll admit that I started off hesitant to accept the idea, but in the performance it came across very well, and I didn't hear any issue at all. <br /><br />To refer to what Joe said in his first comment, a good idea can straddle whatever style you want.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06802021014032324367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-73254657195216961492012-11-17T15:31:01.772-03:302012-11-17T15:31:01.772-03:30What a great discussion! Lots of different ideas a...What a great discussion! Lots of different ideas and lots of opinions! I can really see where everyone's coming from here.<br /><br />To me, I agree with needing a sense of internal consistency; however, I also agree Dr. Ross about how when it comes determining what constitutes this consistency, it can be quite difficult. <br /><br />In my experiences (though these are quite limited), I have found that having a plan and knowing "where you want to go" with a piece really helps. It allows for much growth, exploration, and development and does not limit you to one idea. If you set up some initial parameters I have found that it helps you stay on a (somewhat) consistent track. I've found that the way I compose really depends on the kind of day or week I'm having. If I know the direction I want to take a piece, I've found that it helps to hone all of the external factors I'm experiencing into one coherent composition.<br /><br />But, hey... that said... sometimes a huge change is exactly what I piece needs! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05662394969134331912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-47567796921520994252012-02-24T12:44:47.232-03:302012-02-24T12:44:47.232-03:30Hey Joe, the point you made about internal consist...Hey Joe, the point you made about internal consistency in your initial comment was a good one — it <i>is</i> important to aim for some sort of "internal logic" or consistency in the music we write — so I am glad you raised the issue. <br /><br />Determining what constitutes internal logic in a given composition can be tricky, and not everyone will always agree on this... what seems logical to me, may seem otherwise to someone else. <br /><br />But it's definitely something that composers need to consider, even it's to conclude that they want to write a piece with NO internal logic whatsoever (although, mostly in the courses I teach, I DO want people to try to arrive at some internal logic!).<br /><br />Thanks again for starting this discussion!Clark Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13153382609775397798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-56190611374920345482012-02-22T00:28:53.051-03:302012-02-22T00:28:53.051-03:30Ok...Joe here (Soup). Much of what I expressed in ...Ok...Joe here (Soup). Much of what I expressed in my initial comment reflect my lack of experience in composition. The risks that I mention clearly reflect what I've been thinking a lot about recently with respect to writing music. The thought of tackling larger forms and structures is a bit daunting to me, and so I am currently in "form and structure" mode. <br /><br />Ultimately, a great composer can make almost anything work, as long as they believe that what they have to communicate is worth communicating.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11236827511863552339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-44877001070171737382012-02-21T23:26:25.951-03:302012-02-21T23:26:25.951-03:30Internal consistency is an interesting concept, an...Internal consistency is an interesting concept, and in my opinion I do think it is important for an "effective" piece. In my experience, pieces that "lack" it (subjectively, of course) seem to be missing a certain something that is often indefinable to an audience but definitely noticeable.<br /><br />I know at least one conductor that has difficulty programming works if they cannot see a tangible form and I believe this would extend to consistency, as well. <br /><br />I do agree with Dr. Ross though in that polystylism doesn't inherently oppose internal consistency.Bekah Simmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02497105701024316871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-29227706732055283212012-02-21T15:49:36.315-03:302012-02-21T15:49:36.315-03:30Nice to see that this has engendered a discussion!...Nice to see that this has engendered a discussion! <br /><br />"Soup" writes about the importance of internal consistency in a composition, and while that is a fine principle (it seemed to work for Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, and possibly composers whose last names did not begin with B as well), I'm not sure that polystylism necessarily works in opposition to internal consistency. <br /><br />After all, even Bach blended different national styles within compositions; the fourth keyboard Partita begins with a very French "Ouverture," followed by a German Allemande, a Courante that is a French dance, but this one seems to be a French/German/English hybrid, an Aria that sounds Italianate to me, a Sarabande, a dance said to have originated in Spain, although this one doesn't sound very Spanish to me, a Menuet, which is dance of French origin (although once again, I'm not sure how French this one sounds; it could be Italian or German), and a Gigue, a dance originally from England, but, when spelled this way, is French. <br /><br />Is there "internal consistency" within this Partita? I would say yes, definitely but perhaps the consistency operates on a deeper level (harmonic language, the consistent technique of Bach's musical language), whereas the stylistic differences perhaps operate more on a surface level.<br /><br />Composition involves risks, but they are of minor consequence, at least when compared to the risks associated with being a brain surgeon, or air-traffic controller. Every composer fails a lot. If you try something and it doesn't work as you expected, you try it again and keep at it until you are satisfied, then you move on to the next challenge. <br /><br />I would suggest that if you like the idea of polystylism AND you also like the idea of internal consistency, you can find a way to combine the two.<br /><br />If you haven't already heard it, <a href="http://www.clarkross.ca/Progr-DreamDance.htm" rel="nofollow">here's a link to "Dream Dance,"</a> a piece some have called <i>the finest piano composition since Greek antiquity</i> (admitedly, the people calling it this are my kids, and I told them to say that if asked). It touches on different styles as it bops along (Gershwin, Glass, Bach, Haydn, Scott Joplin, and even some Clark Ross in there somewhere), and I *think* it has internal consistency!<br /><br />My goodness this is a long comment! I may move it into the blog as a postscript...<br /><br />I did want to also respond to Richard Ford, though. First, thanks for commenting! It's always a genuine thrill (as opposed to the artificial kind) when someone I don't know leaves a comment, especially a thoughtful one. <br /><br />Second, you raise an important point: Just how important is "internal consistency" anyway? I suspect every composer would have their own take on this, but the point is that we should at least ask the question from time to time; we don't have to follow centuries of classical music tradition if we don't think that tradition speaks to us or our audiences.Clark Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13153382609775397798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-61883825947120091832012-02-20T16:05:58.470-03:302012-02-20T16:05:58.470-03:30Hey Soup, thanks for the link. THAT is a lot of fu...Hey Soup, thanks for the link. THAT is a lot of fun! <br /><br />As for polystylism and "ensuring internal consistency", it cocurs to me that internal consistency is overrated. Sure, if your concern is stacking up to Beethoven or writing something that is going to be approved for a thesis, great! Is it really something composers need to worry about if they're writing for a lay audience? And is it something you can manage or something that you develop as you develop your craft? <br /><br />Sure, pick a limited set of musical materials and have an eye on organic structure. Otherwise, write something you think is fun and you would listen to and see how it turns out. <br /><br />Of course, I could just be justifying my own shortcomings... <br /><br />Richard Ford<br />http://www.facebook.com/richardfordcomposerRichard Fordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00604002002019493867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-3123086845804486702012-02-20T00:15:28.475-03:302012-02-20T00:15:28.475-03:30Speaking of polystylism...
http://www.youtube.com/...Speaking of polystylism...<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPBDHnlhvSQ&feature=shareJoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11236827511863552339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7298312567843426829.post-83912629702319421522012-02-20T00:05:32.931-03:302012-02-20T00:05:32.931-03:30The biggest risk with polystylism would be ensurin...The biggest risk with polystylism would be ensuring internal consistency with the music. Perhaps unrelated genres can coexist, but the justification for this would have to be compelling. Variety of styles does not ensure interest and cannot make up for lack of inspiration. Important questions to ask would be: Why am I choosing to combine these two styles? What elements of these styles do I think are interesting? What relationships do the styles that I am choosing share? etc...<br /><br />In other words, choose deliberately and wisely, because no number of styles will make up having zero good ideas.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11236827511863552339noreply@blogger.com